Rogue M1A Bullpup
A bullpup .308 is a whole lot of firepower in a small package. Juggernaut Tactical has decided it’s time for the M1A to be paired with an ultra rigid and compact chassis to potentially make the bullpup from hell: the Rogue M1A Bullpup. The old M14’s are available as part of a loan service from mili8tary surplus stores to local law enforcement to bolster their capabilities, and beside the fact that they are giving LE some help in completing their arsenal, it proves that the military still hasn’t fallen out of love with the m14, or expects some conflict where we will eventually want to use these bad boys again.
The M14, for lack of a better one word explanation is: cantankerous. Effective, but massive. The M110 has all but fully replaced the M14 et al in the military, and the Stoner design is anything but unwieldy. The M14 has been proven in muddy jungles, arid deserts and wet conditions. It shoots an incredible round and it can be made to adapt to just about any condition. In the civilian market, the M1A by Springfield exists as a near carbon copy to satisfy the .308 cravings and the long range shot stopping power for private citizens.
Law enforcement who wanted a drop in fit with an aftermarket stock for their military loanees, and civilians who wanted something “more” for their purposes needed something that wasn’t bulky, heavy and ridiculous to install. Enter Juggernaut Tactical’s Rogue M1A Bullpup.
The Bullpup Design
So what’s the point of the bullpup? Ever since the Austrian company Steyr reintroduced the largely unproven bullpup design in it’s amazing Steyr AUG design, the concept took off. It wasn’t the first bullpup design, others had done it before that time including a design by Enfield and one by the Soviets, as well as the Steyr AUG’s contemporary released at the same time: the FAMAS from the French. What made the AUG so good, was it took all that was good in a bullpup and made it into one cohesive unit, something that had never been done before.
There was the longer barrel, which generally goes hand in hand with faster velocities and better accuracy. There was the ambidextrous operation made easy by the congruent halves of the stock; the high capacity at the rear of the weapon, and the shorter sight plane. Furthermore, the bullpup was compact, and meant the AUG (and it’s descendents) could be carried in the field, in CQB and still used for longer range operations. There was a level of modularity to the bullpup design and that made sense for a constantly evolving military force. All of the sudden there was a more universal weapon capable of just about anything the soldier needed it to do.
Again, fast forward to the Rogue M1A. The military has never adopted a Bullpup design as a full weapon system in the United States, but there are footholds in place for one to eventually come through the ranks. The M14’s available to LE however, make such a plan worthwhile. Many of the soldiers in the “War on Terror” have used some of the old surplus rifles when they made sense on the battlefield, and there is no contesting the timeless capabilities of the 7.62 x 51 round. The Rogue M1A Bullpup is more fixed on taking on the civilian market though, as the M14 will probably never again be fielded by the infantry or any major division in in major military branch again in a primary role. They also have their eyes on the prize for LE and special enforcement groups. But they are amongst stiff competition.
The Rogue M1A Bullpup design has a few tricks up its sleeve to combat the fierce opposition:
- Available as a drop in fit for all M1A’s and M14’s with a large than 16” barrel
- It’s a mpon0olithic style design putting the entire breadth of the stock into one piece
- It’s made out of quality materials including 6061-T6 hardened and anodized, and 4140 carbon steel
- There is not alteration or parts modification to the rifle
- The barrel is free-floating
- Rails are everywhere
- The “stock/Chassis” is lightened and still maintains its rigidity
- It’s very well balanced and swings well
- It’s lighter than some other competitor setups currently in use
But this badboy isn’t perfect. For starters it’s not optimized for left handed shooters: they will take a substantial amount of hot, high velocity brass to the face.
The iron sights are rendered useless via a slightly obtrusive upper heatshield, so additional investment will be necessary in the form of some BUIS sights.
The trigger is finicky, albeit nice when it’s working spot on. It’s a pretty unique design that looks like the mix between an Olympic long range rifle trigger and a Steyr AUG. It does make noise, have creep and make you feel like it is over-engineered for no reason at times though.
It’s pricey and it doesn’t fit every niche. At between $1k and $1400, unless you already have the rifle or you are a LE agency who can qualify for the loan program from the military surplus supplies, then it’s an expensive modification.
Mag changes can be awkward with a heavy mag nestled in your armpit. Additionally, scopes will require a riser in many cases to align the optic properly.
What does this mean for shooters of the M1A or M14?
SO the concern is this: if you need a CQB type rifle setup in .308 and you already have the gun to go in the chassis, is it worth the extra $1k+ to lose your irons, and have awkward magazine changes?
For me, the answer is a resounding no, but maybe that’s because I’m not a huge fan of the looks of the weapon. I simply enjoy the more traditional looks of the M14 and M1A. I think the Rogue M1A Bullpup has a use in LE, for those who know that’s the action they want to be using, but for the civilian market, it may just be a novelty.
Benjamin, thank you for the fair & honest review of the Rogue bullpup conversion kit. I sampled the Rogue kit last July and as much as I tried to love it I came to a similar conclusion as you have. However, I never found it to be any lighter than other competitor setups currently in use, the Rogue ended up being heavier than similarly equipped competitor setups.
The Rogue conversion kit is an interesting option for a few owners of the M14/M1A rifle. The kit attempts to transform the M1A rifle into a multi-purpose, CQB/Sniper rifle. It’s bullpup configuration attempts to do this by moving the rifle action 11.75 inches closer to the users body. This may look good on paper, but the design ends up transforming a once well balanced rifle with good, user friendly ergonomics into a bulky and heavy unbalanced tail dragging rifle with slow & problematic mag changes. The ROGUE bullpup conversion, in my opinion, may be a decent range toy set-up, but it has no place in a working rifle role, the SAGE EBR, Blackfeather RS or the basic configuration are better choices for this role. Also, the Rogue bullpup is not user friendly to left handed shooters.
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Ben, your review is pretty good, but a little inaccurate. I’m wondering if you have actually tested this platform. the company I work for has recently purchased 8 fully automatic versions of the Rogue for security purposes. I also have one for my own personal use. Me and My crew members all change mags very,very fast..as fast as we did with our Scars and AR’s and this system is much more effective in Helicopter’s and on ship in tight quarters. Having the weight closer to your body is way better than the Sage EBR’s we used last year….and with scoped version it’s much lighter and easier to maneuver. I’m not sure why you would think that a scope riser are necessary,f because everyone on my team thinks it’s perfect. Trigger finicky??? that’s completely False……our trigger’s are always spot on and is about as simplistic as they come. You will see the Rogue in theater with special ops troops very soon, I assure you. This is a practical, functional system that’s leaps and bounds ahead of anything currently available. Also I may add that we all shoot it left handed with no problems….brass DOES NOT HIT YOU IN THE FACE, everyone knows that M14 brass ejects between 1 and 2 o’clock. you do have to raise your face over the rear panel vs burying your face on the right side, this is just a training issue. As far as “Kevin”…….his opinion is null and void, He is not a professional,He does know about range toys……because that’s all he own’s….he’s never used anything in theater or in the line of duty and everyone knows Kevin has it in for the Manufacturer, since they parted company with him last year. I was even told he is a Sage/SEI cheerleader. Kevin “H20man” has been banned off of EVERY mainstream forum. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=256552&Number=3225405#Post3225405
I haven’t tested the newer version, and admittedly I was going off of another shooter’s recollection about left handed shooting/brass concerns” I will gladly add an addendum to edit that. I was offered an opportunity to test the new ones, but haven’t as of yet. I’d love to talk more in depth with you about the platform and your other experience with it and similar. You can contact me via email at info@netgunsmith.com if you have interest. I don’t know “Kevin” or anyone else, and unfortunately don’t get to forum surf as often as I’d like with such a busy schedule. I have my own cheers/jeers/ideas about the Sage system. I will be doing some reviews for other manufacturers in the coming months. Thanks for commenting; looking forward to having you as a returning visitor.
Naval Warrior, you have never met me and you certainly don’t know me. Everyone knows that manufacturer that you represent has it in for me, but know body including myself knows why. Shame on you and the manufacturer that is feeding you false information about me for your unprofessional and underhanded business practices.
Also, Ben is spot on with his review, but you make it sound like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, just as you and other JTac minions have done with others that have spoken honestly about the conversion kit. Team rogue thinks everything about the kit is perfect, but it’s not and that’s why some of the many changes I suggested last year have shown up in the 2nd generation chassis.
Ben, Naval Warrior is nothing more than a shill for the manufacturer of the Rogue conversion kit. His job is to follow me around on the internet and talk trash about me personally. Broken Sailor as he calls himself on other forums, even the ones he has been banned from for attacking me personally does not know me and has never met me… his opinion of me is null and void. Everyone on the net knows that he’s a low level JTac minion.
OK, Kevin and Naval Warrior, let’s do this: I don’t know if either of you are working for the companies that you seem to favor, and personally it doesn’t matter to me. Why not make it concrete for others to decide? We get a decent amount of traffic.
If each of you wants to prepare a detailed overview/review of the product you like best I will post it with YOUR name as the author, it will be placed on the front page and within appropriate sections of the website. That way each of you can have your say, and the readers can gain some knowledge. At least then, the argument helps out some people looking for gear. Please at least make it as detailed as my original review (which isn’t particularly detailed), and I will edit it a small amount, without changing substantive information in the article.
All the platforms already mentioned in this discussion have some merit, and the platform they go on is undoubtedly a great tool, so let’s turn this into some free PR for your favorite system, and some for you as a gun industry writer/expert. If you need editing or writing help I’m willing to do so, let me know. If you want to contact me via phone, email me to info@netgunsmith.com and I will send you my number.
Ben, that sounds both fair and logical to me… I’ll try and work something up next week and it would be great if you would reply to my email with a phone # that I can call and speak with you about this and other related subjects.
Thank you.
It’s been a busy week and I haven’t had the time to write up a new review… for now you can read what I wrote several months ago :: http://www.athenswater.com/Rogue_Modifications.html
Ben, I often work out of the country and in most cases lurk on forums for info……..I am not broken sailor and am not following Kevin around. I do not work for Juggernaut……..My company is very, very happy with their products. I will not write an overview, I simply don’t have the time. You owe it to yourself to try this platform before writing a review. here is a link just posted today that debunk’s difficulties in mag changes. As for Kevin, everyone in the m14 realm knows you………you’re a Lee Emerson wanna be…
Ben, Good luck with you findings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMT0nEH6gCc&feature=plcp
Kevin is a total Idiot………..I’m not broken sailor, nor do I know who he is. I am just a Happy customer. I do not work for the Manufactured nor do I represent them. My question to Kevin is Have you served in the Military, L.E. or even Private sector security???? Rumor has it that you are a draft dodger. Ben, I wish I had time to write you a review, but I don’t…..that’s your job and you should probably actually get this rifle and shoot it before diving into a review……….it’s only fair for the manufacturer and the reader’s. Here’s a new video posted on mag changes, I’m actually a lot faster. good luck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMT0nEH6gCc&list=LL8CzIHCOdoPT7btHsPaby5A&feature=mh_lolz
Yeah, well, you know, that’s just. like your opinion man.
Naval Warrior is an insignificant fool. Rumor has it that he voted for Obama in ’08 and that he will vote for Obama again this year. All this BS artist does is regurgitate the lies Dino Brunetti and company spoon feed him… that’s his job. I don’t have time for his petty shenanigans.
H2O out.
Ben, it appears that Naval Warrior think the Rogue M1A conversion kit is the best thing to happen since night baseball… it’s only fair that he express his opinion here, but his personal attacks against me and his questioning your ability to review the kit are laughable at best.
Mag changes: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=430405796976614&set=vb.425529914130869&type=2&theater
Naval Warrior is the idiot…… my question to Broken Sailor is why can’t he be honest about anything??? Why must he perpetuate the lies Dino & Juggernaut Tactical have fed him??
There are these people that knock me — let them knock me. I can handle it. I don’t run from anybody.
Another problem with the Rogue is the design and shape of their trigger guard, JTach should have retained the rounded shape of the original M14 trigger guard so that your finger is less likely to get hung up on the tight sharp angle the Rogue currently uses.